The Kinesis blockchain

Derek · Jan 23, 2023

The thing about these transparency requests is that they don't help when the people making the requests are doing so for reasons other than transparency.

From the comments in this thread, it appears AmaLlulla trusted the Kinesis blockchain and wanted increased transparency, and after that transparency was brought out and we here took the time to build independent nodes and download all the transactions and wrangle them in spreadsheets to independently verify that the blockchain data is correct and matches with the audits, that's when AmaLlulla decided that the blockchain probably wasn't trustworthy.

If you assume people's motivations are what they say they are, then that doesn't make a lot of sense.

But regardless - we can now verify the blockchain independently (and will soon release instructions on how anyone can repeat our work), and match that up with the amount of metal in the vaults that third party auditors have verified, so we know the metal accounting in Kinesis is legit. That's something no competitors are doing. And it's something we couldn't say before Sachmo showed up, so kudos to him!

At the very least, in this time of rampant fraud in finance and especially in the crypto space, one can be fairly certain that if they transfer their digital assets into Kinesis and convert it to KAU or KAG, that the metal they're buying actually is vaulted in the amount that it's supposed to be. With all this noise, that's a real plus.

So attacks on the blockchain are wasted effort and won't gain a ton of traction, and soon I expect we'll see the attacks shift to some other area.

Time will tell.

sixgun · Jan 23, 2023

Derek said:
But regardless - we can now verify the blockchain independently (and will soon release instructions on how anyone can repeat our work), and match that up with the amount of metal in the vaults that third party auditors have verified, so we know the metal accounting in Kinesis is legit. That's something no competitors are doing. And it's something we couldn't say before Sachmo showed up, so kudos to him!

Indeed who else is doing this, what other community is doing this and what other company is actively helping its community to do it?
i think that says a lot - i think it says everything really.
Of course the present crop of malcontents and green with envy rivals will continue sniping from the gutter, but what the hell, who runs their life on the noise coming from barking dogs?

jcriecke · Jan 23, 2023

“Hey this digital gold thing looks legit”

-“lol”

“They’re up and running, I’ve bought some ounces.”

-“if you don’t hold it you don’t own it”

“I took delivery of some bars”

-“well sure they’d have a few to keep up the facade”

“I’ve received my first yield!”

-“get ready for the rug pull sucker”

“I bought groceries with my silver”

-“when tshtf you’ll be sorry, buy physical”

“I got a literal bar with the name of the company stamped on it”

-“probably made of plastic. Kinesis is a scam. I can’t wait for the end times when I’ll have all the bags of coins and rule over the ashes of civilization.”

There was a period where Kinesis could’ve been a scam. We’re way past that point now. There was a period where it could’ve been a failure but we’re rapidly nearing the end of that time. At this point it’s time to believe or not that the gold is there.

AlM · Jan 23, 2023

jcriecke said:
“Hey this digital gold thing looks legit”

-“lol”

“They’re up and running, I’ve bought some ounces.”

-“if you don’t hold it you don’t own it”

“I took delivery of some bars”

-“well sure they’d have a few to keep up the facade”

“I’ve received my first yield!”

-“get ready for the rug pull sucker”

“I bought groceries with my silver”

-“when tshtf you’ll be sorry, buy physical”

“I got a literal bar with the name of the company stamped on it”

-“probably made of plastic. Kinesis is a scam. I can’t wait for the end times when I’ll have all the bags of coins and rule over the ashes of civilization.”

There was a period where Kinesis could’ve been a scam. We’re way past that point now. There was a period where it could’ve been a failure but we’re rapidly nearing the end of that time. At this point it’s time to believe or not that the gold is there.

Great way of putting it and it shows the ridiculous, Kinesis-can-never-win, bait-and-switch questioning for what it really is.

Troglodytes · Jan 23, 2023

The weird thing is that these attacks come from gold and silver bugs. For decades, they have bored people to death with slogans like "Gold is Money" etc, when it really couldn't be used in any practical way as money for day to day purchases. Now finally a company has emerged that makes it possible to use gold and silver as money again in the modern digital world, but they are attacking it! So they have been talking **** all the time?

AlM · Jan 23, 2023

Well, it's not *their* company. They all know the game's up by the end of 2023, by which time Kinesis will have changed the industry.

They could just partner, now, and share the benefits forever. Head/sand.

Derek · Jan 23, 2023

AlM said:
They could just partner, now, and share the benefits forever. Head/sand.

That's something I don't understand. Part of the genius of the model is the 20% partner yield - you don't need to compete so much as join in, even if that means white-labeling Kinesis. We should be seeing lots of folks competing in this space, all offering debit cards, and different on-ramps, and different branding, and all that, with Kinesis as the back-end.

But we're not.

If I'm running Bob's Gold Vault now I can continue to pay for and manage the vaulting, or I can move that to Kinesis, get a holder's yield, and have no storage fees. I have vault audit reports so I'm still a responsible fiduciary - I know it's there. If I want to get creative and give everyone a Bob's Precious Metals Debit card (rebranded from Kinesis) then I'll get 20% of the fees they generate, plus another 7.5% if I referred them. I'll make twice as much on that client as Kinesis does with their share of the yield pool!

This is such a no-brainer I'm surprised we don't have 5 companies offering to sell rebranded Kinesis yet.

I expect we will some day. It makes more sense than competing.

Instead people are panicking and defending their current business model. What if your gold tokens could still be traded on the ETH blockchain, but in the backend you moved to KAU and saved the labor/cost of vaulting and gained holder's yield, and you just managed redemptions through Kinesis?

It'll be interesting to see who continues to fight once the obvious way forward gets into their heads.

AlM · Jan 23, 2023

Derek said:
That's something I don't understand. Part of the genius of the model is the 20% partner yield - you don't need to compete so much as join in, even if that means white-labeling Kinesis. We should be seeing lots of folks competing in this space, all offering debit cards, and different on-ramps, and different branding, and all that, with Kinesis as the back-end.

But we're not.

If I'm running Bob's Gold Vault now I can continue to pay for and manage the vaulting, or I can move that to Kinesis, get a holder's yield, and have no storage fees. I have vault audit reports so I'm still a responsible fiduciary - I know it's there. If I want to get creative and give everyone a Bob's Precious Metals Debit card (rebranded from Kinesis) then I'll get 20% of the fees they generate, plus another 7.5% if I referred them. I'll make twice as much on that client as Kinesis does with their share of the yield pool!

This is such a no-brainer I'm surprised we don't have 5 companies offering to sell rebranded Kinesis yet.

I expect we will some day. It makes more sense than competing.

Instead people are panicking and defending their current business model. What if your gold tokens could still be traded on the ETH blockchain, but in the backend you moved to KAU and saved the labor/cost of vaulting and gained holder's yield, and you just managed redemptions through Kinesis?

It'll be interesting to see who continues to fight once the obvious way forward gets into their heads.

Probably the usual mix of inertia, not-invented-here, "Gold's only for the rich", not while people are having to choose between heating & eating, etc etc.

However, it's often chicken-and-egg with a very new proposition. Then it goes quickly. A lot of senior directors in large companies will also be entrenched in the current fiat system. It's changing, quickly.

Dante Roman · Jan 24, 2023

Has this page been updated recently?

Understanding the Kinesis Blockchain

Find out about the Kinesis blockchain - how we calculate fees, deliver yields and validate the token supply of Kinesis KAU and KAG tokens.

kinesis.money

sixgun · Jan 24, 2023

Dante Roman said:
Has this page been updated recently?

Understanding the Kinesis Blockchain

Find out about the Kinesis blockchain - how we calculate fees, deliver yields and validate the token supply of Kinesis KAU and KAG tokens.

kinesis.money

What makes you say this?

Dante Roman · Jan 24, 2023

sixgun said:
What makes you say this?

The content seems to directly address questions that have been raised recently including how to validate token circulation, inflation feature, why it appears some accounts don't get paid fees, what accounts appear on the blockchain etc.

Also

sixgun · Jan 24, 2023

Could be the article has been updated using an older version. As you can see the article is from 2020.
Kinesis being on the ball to keep information bang up to date.

Dante Roman · Jan 24, 2023

Possibly...in which case some of those claiming to have researched and analysed the system without finding answers clearly haven't done a great job.

There's one or two other pages that seem to have been updated recently too.

sixgun · Jan 24, 2023

Dante Roman said:
Possibly...in which case some of those claiming to have researched and analysed the system without finding answers clearly haven't done a great job.

There's one or two other pages that seem to have been updated recently too.

Well some people couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag but claim they are forensic sleuths whilst there are genuine members who are quite capable of finding the necessary information. It really doesn't make sense except as we have witnessed some people just want to cause trouble.

Bvg · Jan 24, 2023

There is an enormous amount of information, videos and articles contained within the kinesis website. Looking through the archive it’s possible to see stuff right from its infancy.
I’d urge anyone with an interest in the kinesis project to go and have a look and review the historical information.
One of my favourites is here

https://kinesis.money/resources/Kinesis-Offering-Memorandum.pdf

A lot is asked about a kvt.
Clearly a few don’t understand the kvt, nor have never taken the time to read the document.
Instead they are happy to take unfounded potshots about kinesis, the yield program, its associated risks and possible rewards.
I’m all for due diligence and encourage everyone to do their own and ask questions. The model is an amazing concept that has thousands of pieces….from where I sit, it’s coming together nicely.

Dante Roman · Jan 24, 2023

sixgun said:
Well some people couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag but claim they are forensic sleuths whilst there are genuine members who are quite capable of finding the necessary information. It really doesn't make sense except as we have witnessed some people just want to cause trouble.

In my defence it was a tough paper bag

Derek · Jan 24, 2023

Bvg said:
I’m all for due diligence and encourage everyone to do their own and ask questions. The model is an amazing concept that has thousands of pieces….from where I sit, it’s coming together nicely.

That's the thing I think most people get: there's genius in the way Kinesis is built:

Gold and silver as money again, which historically has always worked until too many loans were taken against it, or sovereigns opted to dilute coinage and drive inflation.
100% backed by vaulted metal, distributed around the world in commercial vaults.
Audited by a company that's been doing vault audits almost as long as the US has been around
Tracked on a blockchain so you can fractionalize it down to nickel-sized purchases
That provides a yield based on transaction fees. 0.45% sounds like a lot, until you realize that pretty much every retailer is giving 2%-3% to VISA, in which case it's a bargain
Partnering with governments so they can flip a switch and offer their citizens a currency that's going to just about stop inflation
With debit cards and phone-to-phone payment options that operate in real-time - seconds.
With a partnership model where partners earn more from the fees their users generate than Kinesis does

Wrapped up together like that it's shockingly complete and hard to compete with. Or argue against. The only real way to assail it is to say "it's too good to be true - let's prove they are crooks."

But the stackers don't get it because "if you don't hold it you don't own it."

And the crypto folks don't get it yet because it won't moon tomorrow, or because BTC is so perfect all other forms of money will become worthless, or something.

It's the model that really does it for me. If Kinesis doesn't make it, someone else will, with a derivative model. It's just that good.

Jeff W · Jan 25, 2023

Derek said:
That's the thing I think most people get: there's genius in the way Kinesis is built:

Gold and silver as money again, which historically has always worked until too many loans were taken against it, or sovereigns opted to dilute coinage and drive inflation.

100% backed by vaulted metal, distributed around the world in commercial vaults.

Audited by a company that's been doing vault audits almost as long as the US has been around

Tracked on a blockchain so you can fractionalize it down to nickel-sized purchases

That provides a yield based on transaction fees. 0.45% sounds like a lot, until you realize that pretty much every retailer is giving 2%-3% to VISA, in which case it's a bargain

Partnering with governments so they can flip a switch and offer their citizens a currency that's going to just about stop inflation

With debit cards and phone-to-phone payment options that operate in real-time - seconds.

With a partnership model where partners earn more from the fees their users generate than Kinesis does

Wrapped up together like that it's shockingly complete and hard to compete with. Or argue against. The only real way to assail it is to say "it's too good to be true - let's prove they are crooks."

But the stackers don't get it because "if you don't hold it you don't own it."

And the crypto folks don't get it yet because it won't moon tomorrow, or because BTC is so perfect all other forms of money will become worthless, or something.

It's the model that really does it for me. If Kinesis doesn't make it, someone else will, with a derivative model. It's just that good.

Excellent summary!

SteveW · Jan 25, 2023

Dante Roman said:
Has this page been updated recently?

Looks like it could have been. I think this article might well have been a follow up to the 2018 article by Rosalyn Charlton.

Why the Kinesis Blockchain Network is forked from Stellar

Following a number of prototypes and proof of concept builds, the Kinesis team determined that the most effective and fit-for-purpose…

medium.com

Jeff W · Jan 25, 2023

AlM said:
They could just partner, now, and share the benefits forever.

Derek said:
Part of the genius of the model is the 20% partner yield - you don't need to compete so much as join in, even if that means white-labeling Kinesis.

32698770-729B-4CBC-A6AB-B6164A9D5216 2.jpg

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